Interview with Kawayan de Guia





This interview was taken while Kawayan de Guia and Nona Garcia were touring me in Baguio in their van, from Ben Cab Museum, Tam-Awan to Katipunan Restaurant, where we shared drinks and had a karaoke session.
(December 7, 2013 in Baguio City, Philippines, interviewer: Mayumi Hirano)


So now we are in Tam-Awan Village.

Yeah, Tam-Awan was started by BenCab and developed by other artists. I think it started in mid ‘90s, around ‘95, ‘96. It started very casual. Many of the art spaces start very organic. You know that’s how many artist run spaces grew. It develops out of conversations among the guys hanging out together. When the space is more and more developed, you get new headaches. You have to find a way to survive by renting the space, organizing the program, managing people etc.



You also run some spaces. Vocas is one of them. Are you also suffering the headaches from managing the space?

I don’t run it any more. The space opened about 5 years ago. It also started very casual but now it has established. I organized shows there for 3 to 4 years, and I got tired. Just imagine I would prepare everything for the opening and the next morning I have to mop the floor even having a hung over. Shit! So I resigned. Today, it's a vegetarian restaurant with a clean comfort room. Now we have another space, because we wanted a more relaxed place for us to hang out.



What's the name of the new space?

What I heard is Ili-likha. I have nothing to do with it, but I go there. It's my brothers', father's and other people’s community.

Going back to your early days, did you study in Baguio or Manila?

In Laguna. I only have a high school diploma. Makiling is a national high school for art (Philippine High school for the Arts). It's a boarding school, so you go home every weekend.



I heard that the school is quite special. It’s far from the city, and it’s in an isolated environment from the rest of the world. How was your experience there?

Nona: When I went there, I was 11 years old. We have classmates from Mindanao, or the southern Philippines and all the way up to the north. They are practicing different things. So at early age you understand something.

Kawayan: When students come out from the school, they think they are the best. It's a kind of brainwash, or an elitist mindset.

After finishing up high school, did you return to Baguio?

No, I was in Manila and I worked with Agnes Arellano. I lived in her house for two years. She would tell me what to do at the same time I learnt different techniques and her philosophy.

Then I traveled to Nepal, Japan and Thailand. I was still young. In Japan, I stayed in a temple in Saitama. I was very much interested in Buddhism, because of the influence of Agnes. I was very angry at the world at that time. We were all punk. We were really angry because we went through such a frustrating time in school. You know it’s a sort of seeking yourself stuff.

After being uprooted for 8 years from Baguio, I didn’t know anyone anymore here. All of my friends were in Manila. So I had to start from scratch.

But you still came back to Baguio. How did you start again?

Yeah, it’s still my home. I love my grandmother, who was still alive at that time. I stayed with my 98 year-old grandmother. She was almost like my mom. She was a mayor, and beautiful, strong woman. She became the first female mayor in Asia in 1946.

I got back into the art community by smoking a joint. And then everyone is happy and you have an exhibition. There was the Baguio Arts Guild once upon a time. I grew up with this community. So I witnessed it. It’s a beautiful cultural organism. Baguio is very interesting, and historically amazing. That's what I want to share with others.



And you started to organize AX(is) as the continuation of the old Baguio Arts Festival? How did it all begin?

We started with very minimum budget. We wanted to make it as a big celebration. The goal of axis is to connect artists, like I know Mark Salvatus, and I know Nona Garcia, but apparently Nona Garcia and Mark Salvatus don’t know each other. Sometimes if you are away from your home ground, you have easier time to meet new people and make friends. So we thought of throwing a party and invite our friends. The party should present art, and we can talk about it. We wanted to involve a dynamics of people not only “artists” but also the local artists, who are not usually considered as artists, like wood carvers. You know, just imagine people from different practices sit side by side, then they can learn from each other. This is how we started.

I invited most celebrated artists from Manila and put them in the restaurant, Katipunan, which we will go next. We tried to break the stereotype of the audience who go to art exhibitions. Art should be for everyone. Dex Fernandez made a mural there, the Garapata man.

The choice of Katipunan is like a cliché. Cafe by the Ruins was frequented by the Baguio Arts Guild people before they started the guild. It was just ruins before it turned into a café. Tam-Awan is the same, and they made bamboo huts and then they became a popular spot for visitors from Manila. Local people don’t go there often.



(Arrived in Katipunan.) This is the hung out of the artists. It’s a classical restaurant.

This is the boss, Paolo- father, prince of Katipunan. He is the most frustrated artist. That's why he offered this place for us just to do something.

This place feels like the old Baguio. It is the last remaining unsanitized place. Baguio is becoming more like a Disneyland, and this is the last place where ordinary people from the land - vegetable farmers and gold miners come. 

The root word of katipunan is tipon, meaning to gather. Ka tipunan means we all come together. Actually right here at this table in this moment, in a very informal manner, is the point of discourse to share all the problems of whatever. Maybe the catalyst is drinking and dog meat.

Eating dog meat became illegal all the sudden, but I’m not questioning about the dog meat itself. Paolo is not questioning the dog meat either. We are arguing about the vital importance of cultural heritage. Before dogs, there are many other things being sacrificed. Jollibee is one cause. SM is another cause.

About the dog meat, Paolo can tell you a story like a young girl came here to look for dog meat, because her old grandpa is going to die. All he wants to taste is the dog. Actually it is a part of our culture, tradition. Before sacrificing a dog was to give an offer to the ancestors especially in the time of tragedy or sickness. What happened was new restaurants started to serve dog meat and it became commercial. Katipunan didn’t advertise that they serve dog meat on newspaper or radio. There is a joke. How can this be commercial? Where is the commercial thing? Paolo doesn’t even encourage anyone to come and eat at his restaurant.

You can see how many starving dogs out there. I hate to say this and I know it's really a sketchy subject, but it is the reality. We have to talk about it. The problem is that we are never given a proper opportunity to discuss about what's right and what's wrong. They make a law without hearing people’s voices.



What are the activities held here at Katipunan during the AX(is)?

It's a very messy story. We popularized all abandoned places, which were really many places. Some artists were giving workshops, also doing really good hip-hop music. Just imagine that I was running around in the middle of organizing, Paolo was taking care of artists’ workshops. So many things were happening all at once. An uncountable number of visitors came everyday. The police began following us, trying to find an excuse to stop the event. We got into troubles because of them for no reason. We were innocent, but they even took out guns in front of the children who were in the event .

This compelled me to gather all the artists in Baguio to curve the oldest pine tree in the city. It's a 400-year-old pine tree, which had died. We always go to this special pine tree. What we usually do is to go there make fire and do ritual, drink and talk. This is the Baguio style. So we curved this tree and made a totem pole to say that we are people of the community. We felt the need to make a monument to protect us. That was the dark side of such a public festival.

Spirituality seems to be a central idea that artists in Baguio share. Art does not only exist in the museum or artist studio. It can intervene into the everyday life. I believe this was the philosophy of BAG. What do you think was the positive effect of AX(is)?

Beautiful thing was that people came everyday to help make a huge tent by sewing unused T-shirts together, which was presented in the park. Through this process, networks were created. It created a kind of collective understanding about art. Even a person who sells peanuts, or even the school children recognize us as “artists”. This morning I was literally called as artists by a student of grade five. Even if they don't understand what art history is, they regularly see what we do so they start to wonder. Art is not only something beautiful or not only about drawing and painting.

Baguio is a university town. It has nine universities. We really tried to get the kids involved. Some of our friends who teach at universities are really frustrated because school is separated from the actual art community. Even when Baguio Arts Guild was active, the situation was the same. Together with my friends, we try to open up by running workshops, but the problem is about 80% of the kids are not from here so they don’t care about Baguio.

What’s the future plan for AX(is)?

We are trying to finish the book by February. Languages spoken in this place and in the village 15 km away are different. It’s incredible. You know the Philippines has 73 languages, not dialects. It is crazy. This is what we want to bring out in the book that you have to travel.

(Starting of Karaoke session) Do you know the song Ang Himig Natin? Do you know the story behind the song?

No.


A man was going to be killed. He was threatened by a gunpoint. You better sober up motherfucker. So he went to the bathroom and took a shit. He composed this song secretly in the toilet. It was during the Marcos time. It is kind of like Imagine by John Lennon. But this song was written ten years before Imagine was made, and he did it while taking shit.



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Kawayan de Guia was Born 1979 in Baguio, Luzon, Philippines. Based in Baguio City, the Philippines, de Guia works across painting, installation and sculpture. His works proffer ironic and sometimes comedic perceptions of sociopolitical issues in contemporary Philippine society and the colonial past, and often make reference to or draw materially from his hometown. His deep interest in the heritage and indigenous culture of the Cordilleras can be traced to his family, which has been a longstanding advocate for the arts and cultural scene in Baguio. In 2011, de Guia initiated AX(iS) Art Project, a bi-annual arts festival that is guided by the belief that art is not exclusive and, therefore, posited outside institutional norms. (Taken from ARNDT)

© Kawayan de Guia and Mayumi Hirano